Unable to untangle the pieces
The Legal Genealogist had planned to do a test of the new Geni-Family Tree DNA interface for today’s DNA Sunday blog post.
The information about this new link came in a press release, and you can read all about it here in the Geni blog.1
It sounds really intriguing, and I was going to try it.
Instead, I’m retreating… at least temporarily … into confusion and frustration.
I’m not ready to concede defeat, as yet, but…
I cannot for the life of me figure out how the various bits and pieces of MyHeritage, which includes Geni now, fit together.
I also can’t figure out how anyone is supposed to know what the various subscriptions include that you can pay for, in any kind of comprehensive compare-this-to-that way.
I can figure out, from the Geni site, that a basic Geni membership is free, and that the Pro level of Geni costs $119.40 a year, in US dollars.2
What exactly you get for that $119.40 a year isn’t so easy to figure out. The site says that it includes the ability to “discover new branches of your family tree with instant tree matches,” “search over 150 million profiles to find and connect with possible relatives,” “store and share unlimited photos, videos and documents with your family” and get direct support.3
Now… if you’re already a MyHeritage member… is any part of this included? Apparently not. Not in function, not in billing, not in price.
From a function perspective, the difference, according to the MyHeritage Help Center, is that “Although both services focus on working together to build your family tree – MyHeritage is focused on private family trees, while Geni is focused building one World Family Tree.”4
So if I’m reading this right, the tree functions at MyHeritage are all private, and the tree functions on Geni are … um … well, there clearly is a collaborative function, but there also seems to be some private element as well. Does the DNA linking go to one or both? Is it a part of the free system or only with the paid option?
And MyHeritage has at least two types of subscription charges, one for trees and one for data, and trying to find out exactly how much each one is, not just for a first-time subscriber getting a discount, but every year, and what’s included in each… that’s not so easy either. Unless I’m missing something, there isn’t one single page where you can see these costs and what’s included in each.
And oh… remember that MyHeritage just added the ability to link your DNA results as well?5 Not sure how, if at all, that works with Geni — or not. Apparently not, but…
In other words, I have no idea who’s on first, either with Geni, or with MyHeritage.
And I’m not uploading another set of DNA results until I can figure it out.
So consider this an open invitation to the folks at MyHeritage and at Geni: ‘splain it to us.
Including why there isn’t a one-stop-shopping option for MyHeritage and its various bits and pieces, including Geni…
SOURCES
- Amanda, “Geni Adds DNA to the World Family Tree,” Geni Blog, posted 30 June 2016 (https://www.geni.com/blog/ : accessed 3 July 2016). ↩
- “How much is a Geni Pro subscription?,” Knowledge Base: Frequently Asked Questions, Geni.com (http://help.geni.com/ : accessed 3 July 2016). ↩
- Geni Pro Benefits, “Special Offer: Try Geni Pro for Free!,” Geni.com (https://www.geni.com/ : accessed 3 July 2016). ↩
- “What’s the difference between MyHeritage and Geni?,” Related Services, Help Center, MyHeritage (http://helpcenter.myheritage.com/ : accessed 3 July 2016). ↩
- See e.g. Judy G. Russell, “MyHeritage DNA terms changed,” The Legal Genealogist, posted 27 May 2016 (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog : accessed 3 July 2016). ↩
I’m interested to hear the response and am glad I’m not the only confused person. I appear to be in excellent company.
I’ve said this to the folks at MyHeritage before, so this won’t come as any surprise to them, I hope: I just can’t find the answers!
I too find My Heritage confusing to use.
Am I the only one who can’t find the information about the original source material that we need to write source citations?
That’s a problem everywhere, not just on MyHeritage.
Thank you for writing this. When I received the Geni-Family Tree DNA interface email, I was quite lost on how it worked. Here’s hoping for a response from MyHeritage!
Any one who thinks a one world tree will be a success is living in that famous state of DeNile. If you’ve ever looked for your family on an online tree anywhere………How many different parents could there possibly be? And how many siblings that were born in another country, another century, or that have not one shred of information about them, can there be?
I see no point in putting my DNA there either. I already have it 3 places. Anyone who is seriously looking will look there.
The idea of a one-world-tree is such a good one, however, that I’m not prepared to give up on it.
Isn’t that – a one world tree – what the Mormon Family Search site is doing? Are we headed to a two world tree now that Geni is doing it? Or as probable, am I missing something?… Bob
Geni’s came first. FamilySearch is trying to catch up. FS says it now has a larger tree, but it’s hard to tell if that is true, or if it is because gedcom uploads caused more duplication. But you’ve identified the two main competitors for building the World Family Tree. WikiTree is hopelessly behind and will never catch up.
Thanks, Randy. I like the idea of one world (or two world) trees. I’ve meant to post mine once I eliminate known errors and make it perfect . My extended family has so many extinguished descendants, though, I doubt there are existing trees. That would require a lot of manual entries which I don’t wa nt to do. A gedcom would be great. I FT also doesn’t like gedcoms now
Judy R. I am your friend and after watching there webinars twice I purchased it and I got the Premium and since I got it running it has found more ancestors then I would not be able to do In Mounts. It has surprise me like nothing I seen before. When I am not on it and when I come Back things are change some times for the better. Fred
and some before. It is a lot like Family Search.org when
I half-way understand MyHeritage, Fred, and I agree that there are relatives we can find there — particularly the internationals — that we won’t find anywhere else. It’s the only site where I’ve actually connected with one of my German cousins. But it’s still confusing, especially with Geni as part of but not part of…
I was looking forward to you explaining it to us! I too find My Heritage very confusing, and cancelled my membership some months ago. Then I received notice that I’d been automatically billed for renewal for another part of their service, which I had forgotten about as a separate subscription. 🙁
It’d really be terrific if there was some one-stop-shopping site for all the parts of MyHeritage — and all accounts.
… but that might not be as profitable, Judy! 😉
I have a free account at GENI and into my second year of paid subscriptions(data and regular)at MyHeritage. I recently discovered a twig of my extended family at Geni. It did not give me much information with my free Geni account. However, the MyHeritage account gave me information for that GENI family so my conclusion is that the GENI database of family trees is available for MyHeritage members to search with their full subscription plan.
I bought MyHeritage subscriptions because I have a large European heritage where I work in records on microfilm for Poland, Hungary and Slovakia, some German. I have found lots of family connections there which enhanced my research, no doubt, especially cousins lost after World War II. I also broke many American brickwalls using the Newspapers research tool at MyHeritage (note: Randy’s recent article on Newspapers Archive.com is disturbing for me at this point >>> http://www.geneamusings.com/2016/06/newspaperarchive-collection-on.html )which justified the price of the subscription but not sure if I will pay it next year if Newspapers element is gone.
As a volunteer group administrator, FT-DNA often rolls things out without notifying us. I suggest the GA’s contact FT-DNA for an explanation and see what we get. I have had so many questions from our members as to what signing up does and what it means to opt out. Also, is this an excuse not to update the FT-DNA tree format which is quite terrible? Hmm.
Thank you for your take on this Judy. KAM
I believe all 3 services are totally separate – Geni Pro, MyHeritage trees, and MyHeritage data. Of the 3, I find Geni Pro by far the most useful and I’m happy to pay for that subscription fee. Geni Pro gives you full access to Geni features including the ability to merge trees and edit anywhere in the World Family Tree. So that’s where I’ve been uploading the DNA results; I’ve ignored MyHeritage’s DNA offering so far. There’s huge potential in the combination of the collaborative tree and the DNA results – exciting times ahead!
Nobody disagrees over the potential benefits of well-documented trees combined with the scientific data from DNA testing. That’s not the issue. The issue is, where is all of the information spelled out? How does someone know?
I think the Geni FAQ makes it clear that Geni and MyHeritage are separate services:
http://help.geni.com/entries/22475611-How-will-the-two-websites-operate-
They indeed haven’t updated the FAQ on whether DNA is in free vs paid. Hopefully they’ll do that soon. The way they write about it on the blog makes it sound like it’s available in the free tier.
Private trees on Geni pretty much only exist until you can find a way to connect them to the World Family Tree. People who want their own private tree shouldn’t use Geni for that. I think Geni is pretty clear about this as well:
http://help.geni.com/entries/466599-What-is-Geni-
I agree that the MyHeritage offerings are confusing, which is one reason I’m not uploading DNA there either. But I don’t think we should confuse our desire for a discount for shared Geni/MyHeritage memberships with a lack of clarity that such discounts are currently not available.
I’m not asking for a discount. I’m asking for clarity as to what’s included where in which subscription and for how much. And one-stop-shopping doesn’t require discounts; it requires specificity. Pay this, get that.
Agreed. Once the DNA feature gets going on geni there it will be unbeatable as the place to do genetic genealogy as well as collaborative genealogy. This is the future of family research.
I transferred my Y DNA, mtDNA and atDNA (it appears to be Family Finder) to Geni and have some 15 mtDNA and atDNA matches. No Y DNA matches. It will give you a list of people who should match you based on your DNA and the pedigrees. With mtDNA, it seems to give very close readings for people who actually are far far away. So far I am told I have 3rd to 4th cousin mtDNA matches in Finland, Norway, and South Africa based on HVR1 and HVR2 matches. Not likely in my opinion. No Y DNA matches are shown.
I’ll have a longer post on my blog.
Understanding mtDNA is essential if you’re planning on using it. Those close readings are absolutely accurate — they just are recording closeness of genetic relationship, not closeness in terms of how many generations distant.
Judy, GENI is a collaborative world tree, one copy of each person, and at the moment the DNA feature only works with its partner family tree DNA, the others in the future. A pro membership only gives a discount for a myHeritage data membership, not myHeritage otherwise, plus some better features. Recommended if you become a GENI addict like me. Else free is fine.
MyHeritage is more like ancestry, lots of people’s trees and lots of records, but the DNA feature is not yet implemented.
Read my last night’s blog post to see how well the GENI DNA feature works for those with a tree at GENI and family tree DNA profiles.
As just stated in response to a different comment: Nobody disagrees over the potential benefits of well-documented trees combined with the scientific data from DNA testing. That’s not the issue. The issue is, where is all of the information spelled out? How does someone know?
I raised this question on FB but never got an answer, just people who were pro and those who had had horror stories. It seems to be “trust us” and I don’t.
I don’t distrust folks; I just want plain English statements of who’s who, and how much it costs.
Thank you for raising this crucial issue. That was my first question, which I raised in Roberta’s first blog. I wonder if they thought we wouldn’t notice?
I don’t think anybody is deliberately hiding anything; they’re just not doing a good job of making it clear.
My one year subscription to geni ran out three days ago. There is no difference to what I can and can’t do this week to what I could or couldn’t do last week. I thought when I first subscribed to geni that I would be able to contact people on MyHeritage but a MyHeritage subscription was required. The idea of a world family tree is a wonderful idea but geni lets anybody add, delete, change whatever they like apparently. People who seem to have no connection to my family are changing my tree and I only find out when geni sends my ‘family newsletter’. On a positive note, I have been contacted by several cousins because MyHeritage subscribers can contact geni subscribers.
It is a collaborative tree site, yes, and that should be clear.
Geni is owned by MyHeritage but is still run as a separate company. The costs (and benefits) for Geni pro are set forth at http://help.geni.com/entries/471431-Is-Geni-free- The dna feature is NOT a pro feature, meaning it is available to all users. As with most of Geni, you can use it for free. So . . . forget all the questions about MyHeritage, because none of the ones you posed pertain to Geni.
MyHeritage and Ancestry are data aggregators that sell access to data. Geni is a different animal, which is why it has been allowed to run separately, rather than just being treated as another data acquisition. Geni’s business model is to have the best possible tree-building experience and to build a collaborative World Family Tree. They earn enough money from pro subscriptions from those who want all the added features (search, support, gedcom export, unlimited media uploads). Geni users are also a gateway for MyHeritage, because if you have a MyHeritage subscription, while you work on Geni you can also take advantage of SmartMatches and RecordMatches from MyHeritage. So that is the economics of the relationship.
I think many people think a bit too much about the money issues. Your individual dna is basically worthless, as there is no market for it. Same for your name, address and phone number. But if a company can aggregate together a large set of data, like a phone book, then that can become something with economic value. Same with the dna. So yes, Geni will benefit by having lots of dna data that it can use to assist its customers (by offering dna matches), but you aren’t really giving them anything of value when you upload your individual dna. It’s really the aggregation that adds value.
In any case, I hope you do give it a try. My prediction is that only those who have very dense, connected and deep trees may benefit from the integration of the dna data, as no other company can offer both the extensive connected tree and the dna matching. Those who just have small, or unconnected trees, and don’t fully connect with the World Family Tree, will probably find it much like all the other dna sites without much added benefit. In other words, to really see the effect, I think you’ll need to build out a good tree on Geni, and work collaboratively with other researchers working on the same ancestral town. That’s my guess. But we’ll just have to see what develops. Geni is different, and so the results might surprise us.
There’s no question that the blending of good documented family tree info and DNA is valuable. What needs to be explained (and really should be in one place) is that there are (I gather) at least two separate subscriptions needed to get maximum use.
I guess it’s not explained because what you say “at least two separate subscriptions needed to get maximum use” is not correct. Geni is a separate company so you can get everything you want from Geni mostly for free, or else with a Geni subscription for the added features. The DNA feature is absolutely free on Geni. If you subscribe to Ancestry, MyHeritage, or any other sites, you can take advantage of those a well, using various Geni tools. But why is that confusing?
“So consider this an open invitation to the folks at MyHeritage and at Geni: ‘splain it to us.”
Did they not reply to your requests for comment before posting? Because my experience with both is that they’re extraordinarily responsive to press requests, so I’m not sure why you’d need to ask them this way. Even on the Sabbath and on U.S. holiday weekends, their press addresses are monitored, so it’s very odd that you didn’t get a reply before publication.
This is hardly the first time someone has told MyHeritage that it’s impossible to find easy answers to subscription information about its offerings.
Which could very well be true, but I guess my point is that I’m assuming that you contacted Geni directly prior to publication regarding your questions, and it’s out of character for them (based on my experience) to not follow up, so I am surprised by that. Their press handler is terrific at clearing up points of confusion about pricing, terms, membership tiers, etc. Perhaps she’s out and someone forgot to check the inbox?
The problem is that when you see the name Geni, you are thinking MyHeritage. MyHeritage owns Geni, but the company is run separately, from separate offices on different continents, etc. Similarly, Facebook owns Instagram. When Instagram announces a new feature, you wouldn’t automatically expect Facebook to explain to you, would you? Focus on Geni as if it is a completely separate company and things will become more clear to you.
Thanks for this post, it sums up accurately how I was feeling when I started to investigate Geni v’s MyHeritage. I am not a fan of MyHeritage because almost every match I come across has connected to the WikiTree profiles I have created and that every other MyHeritage “relation” has connected to their tree, so to me it appears to be of no value unless I just wish to ‘connect’ with new living family members. I had notice that Geni had taken those ‘profiles’ from MyHeritage into the World Family Tree.
The cost of all these memberships is getting prohibitive, I need to purchase records not other peoples profiles that contains a lot of the information I have placed on WikiTree which is a free collaborative tree that utilises our DNA tests without having to upload our raw data, it may not be as accurate as “dna family matching” but its free so I’ve decided to stick to the for now.
You can also use Geni for free. http://help.geni.com/entries/471431-Is-Geni-free- And Geni is almost 10 times more complete than WikiTree (104.4m v. 11.7m), which is why I think it is not productive for people to be building just on WikiTree.
I agree with Rhonda. Since I am an active Wikitree contributor, the vast majority of my search results from My Heritage return the Wikitree profiles that I created.
Wikitree is free and the community there has always been engaged and helpful. Beyond this, Familysearch Family Tree is also free and allows you to link records from its vast repository directly to your ancestors’ profiles for free.
I am a huge fan of Wikitree and the Familysearch Family Tree and have had great experiences with each site for several years.
As far as the claim that “you can use Geni for free” and Geni is “10 times more complete than Wikitree,” I’m sorry but that simply has not been my experience since most of the most basic features of the site are hidden behind the $119.40 paywall.
For example, one of the most basic features of a “one world tree” – “Enhanced search – search over 100 million profiles to find possible relatives” – is locked behind the paywall.
You can only do a basic name search on Geni for free. Wikitree and Familysearch do not have this restriction.