New online ordering system
There’s good news and bad news on the “please may I have a copy of that application for a Social Security number” front.
The bad news is, all of us — The Legal Genealogist included — are going to have to get used to a whole new ordering system for the form known as the SS-5.
The good news is, it’s a really easy system, and the fee of $21 whether you do or don’t have a Social Security number is less than what it’s been historically, and is reasonable considering what we might get from this document type.
Now… let’s back up a minute and go over, again, what this is all about. (I say again because this isn’t the first time this has come up.1) So let’s cover what this form is and so what exactly we want to order — and then how to get our hands on it.
What the SS-5 is
The SS-5 is a form now held by the Social Security Administration that’s generally known as an Application for a Social Security Number. The example below is my grandfather’s SS-5 form from 19372:
Like most of these forms used from the very beginning of the Social Security system in 1935, this form required a number of key pieces of information, including:
• First, middle and last name
• Present mailing address
• Age at last birthday
• Date of birth
• Place of birth (including city, county and state)
• Father’s full name
• Mother’s full maiden name
• Race or color
• Date and signature
At various times, an applicant may have also had to specify his or her full name at birth, including maiden name if a married female, the name of the current employer and employer’s address, and other information.
So getting a copy of this form is almost always worth it. The information on the SS-5 form was usually provided by the applicant, and so is often the best source of information about what the applicant knew about his or her own birth and parentage.
The worst we’ll get is information supplied by an employer that filled out the form from its employees’ records and had them sign it — which adds another layer of possible human error, or the lie the applicant told for whatever reason. In my family, for example, a cousin on my father’s side listed her grandparents as her parents to avoid having to admit that she’d been born out of wedlock. But even that information is worth having.
Whose record we can get
We can get a copy of the Social Security Number Application (Form SS-5) of any person if:
• The person whose record we’re asking for has given us written consent to get it; or
• The person whose record we’re asking for is deceased, and we can prove it; or
• The person whose record we’re asking for was born more than 120 years ago.3
And because of a change in the law in 2013, there’s one more limit: if we’re asking for the record of a deceased person, that person must have died more than three full calendar years before the date of our request.4
What exactly to order
There are two forms we might get from the Social Security Administration: the Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) for a Deceased Individual; and the Computer Extract of Social Security Application (Numident) for a Deceased Individual. The SS-5 costs $21, the Numident costs $20.
We want the first one. The computer extract often doesn’t have all the same information as the SS-5, it’s not a copy of the original anyway, it won’t have the original signatures, yadda yadda yadda.
Always always always pony up the extra dollar and order the Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5).
How to order the SS-5
To order a copy of an SS-5, we’ve always had to make a formal request under the federal Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) using Form SSA-771. For years, we’ve been able to do it online or by mail.
There’s no change in the mail ordering system: download Form SSA-711, fill it out and send it off with a check.
It’s the online ordering system that’s different. SSA FOIA requests are now being handled through the general FOIAonline website of the federal government, and not directly with SSA at all.
Here’s the how-to directions:
1. Head over to the FOIAOnline website new request page. (If you have trouble with that link, go to the FOIAOnline home page, then choose Create Request from the three options at the top and then click on the Begin.)
2. Under Agency Selection, use the dropdown menu to get to the Social Security Administration (click on your choice to make sure it shows up in that agency box). READ THE DIRECTIONS THERE. It tells you, for example, that you will need to elect in the Additional Information field of the form what type of request you are making. For these records, always choose “Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) for a Deceased Individual.”
3. Under Request Type, leave it alone.
4. Under Contact Information, this is YOUR information. If you include an email address, you will get a confirmation that your request has been received. I would certainly do it.
5. Under Processing Fees, leave it alone. Remember, this is a set $21 fee request, and you’re going to have to pay in advance.
6. Under Description, I would include the person’s name, SSN if known, and date and place of birth if known. Essentially, I would duplicate the info you’re going to enter again under the Additional Information field.
7. Under Request Expedited Processing and Request a Fee Waiver, leave as No (those are not available for this kind of request anyway).
8. Under Additional Information, use the dropdown menu to choose “Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) for a Deceased Individual.” You will now get an entire form to fill out and fill out as much as you can:
• Certification — generally No (it costs $10 and why would you need it?)
• Are You Providing the Subject’s SSN? — It will cost less if you answer Yes and provide it
• Social Security Number
• Date of birth
• Name of Individual at Birth — enter as First Middle Last
• Gender
• Deceased Individual’s Parent/Mother’s Name at Birth — mother’s maiden name in full if known
• Deceased Individual’s Parent/Mother’s Married Name(s)(if any) — mother’s married name if known
• Name(s) of Individual(if other than above/other names(s) used) — e.g. a woman’s maiden name
• Deceased Individual’s Parent/Father’s Name at Birth — if known
Now… there is one more field on this form — Attach Supporting Files. This could be a critical part of your request, and here’s why.
First of all, remember that SSA “will not disclose information about any person in our records unless: 1) the number holder has provided written consent or we have acceptable proof of his or her death; or 2) the number holder is at least 100 years old and we have acceptable proof of his or her death; or 3) the number holder is more than 120 years old.”5
Generally speaking, the SSA has in the past accepted the fact that the person’s name appears on the Social Security Death Master File (what we know as the Social Security Death Index or SSDI) as proof that the person is deceased. But since 2011 not all deaths have been included in the public version of the SSDI — that’s when the SSA stopped including deaths from protected state death reports.6 Moreover, the public SSDI hasn’t been updated in years — and it’s just not clear whether the SSA will look to its own records instead of the public version to determine whether someone is deceased.
So with newer deaths, deaths of younger persons, and as to anyone whose name we can’t find in the public SSDI, we should supply proof of death and that means sending acceptable proofs which may include:
• a copy of a public record of death; or
• a statement of death from a funeral director; or
• a statement of death by the attending physician or the superintendent, physician, or intern of the institution where the person died; or
• a copy of the coroner’s report of death or the verdict of the coroner’s jury; or
• a copy of an official report of death or finding of death made by an agency or department of the U.S. which is authorized or required to make such a report or finding in the administration of any law of the U.S.; or
• an obituary with sufficient identifying information.7
That same set of privacy rules applies to the applicant’s parents’ information as well — and that’s often what we really want. So we may need to submit something to show that they’re dead or were born long ago enough to be presumed dead, too. The types of proofs I’ve used on occasion for this purpose include an obituary of the person saying the parents predeceased the person; death records of the parents; tombstone photos; and a census record showing the ages of the parents.
In the past, though, I’ve always had to send this by mail. Now, for the first time, we can attach those right to our request form in this online system. No more sending things by mail and waiting… and waiting… No more getting turned down from an online request because we couldn’t send in the proofs.
Once you’ve gotten everything the way you think you want it, you’ll be able to preview the request and must accept the terms and affirm that everything you’re doing is legal. (It is, don’t worry.) Once you approve everything in the previous, you’ll be redirected to the Pay.gov website to pay online.
If you gave an email address in the Contact Information part of the form, you’ll get an email confirmation.
And with luck in two to six weeks you’ll get what you’re looking for.
Cite/link to this post: Judy G. Russell, “Ordering the SS-5: 2020 style,” The Legal Genealogist (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog : posted 16 Nov 2020).
SOURCES
- See Judy G. Russell, “Ordering the SS-5,” posted 31 May 2013, “Ordering the SS-5: redux,” posted 6 Jan 2016, and “Ordering the SS-5: 2018 style,” posted 14 Dec 2018, The Legal Genealogist, (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog : accessed 15 Nov 2020). And h/t to Scott Wilds for reminding me this change was due — and has now happened. ↩
- Clay Rex Cottrell, SS no. (withheld for privacy), 22 June 1937, Application for Account Number (Form SS-5), Social Security Administration, Baltimore, Maryland. ↩
- See “Request a copy of Deceased Person’s Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) or Numident Record,” FOIA Request Methods and Fees, Social Security Administration (https://www.ssa.gov/ : accessed 15 Nov 2020). ↩
- See Judy G. Russell, “SSDI access now limited,” The Legal Genealogist, posted 30 Dec 2013 (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog : accessed 15 Nov 2020). ↩
- “Request a copy of Deceased Person’s Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) or Numident Record,” FOIA Request Methods and Fees, Social Security Administration (https://www.ssa.gov/ : accessed 15 Nov 2020). ↩
- See Kimberly Powell, “Access Restrictions to Social Security Death Index,” Thoughtco.com (https://www.thoughtco.com/ : accessed 15 Nov 2020). ↩
- “Request a copy of Deceased Person’s Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5) or Numident Record,” FOIA Request Methods and Fees. ↩
I remember when they were just $7.00 back in the 1990s – historical
That fee was raised almost 20 years ago — effective July 1, 2001. That’s history enough for most folks these days, especially as we live through a year that’s lasting centuries. 🙂
Indeed!
I believe the last time I ordered one of these it was free. Had to have been back in the 1980s. Does my memory deceive me?
I don’t even remember what I had for breakfast this morning!! 🙂 🙂
I know that before 2001 or so, it was $7. I have no clue if this was ever free.
Before they raised the price from $7.00, I ordered a bunch of these for anyone in my family tree that I reasonably could. With all the new rules/regs, in addition to that big price hike, I’m even more glad that I did.
Judy,
Timely post for me–I have never procured the SS-5 for anyone in my family.
Who would likely have an SS-5? Any male born after 1900 and who lived after 1930? Any female born after 1900 and alive after 1950?
Jill
You’ll want to consider the history of Social Security numbers (see The advent of numbers, posted 17 Dec 2018), and the history of family members. Certain kinds of jobs were excluded — and that included about 40% of the working population. But if your people are in the SSDI or in any of the SSA indexes, they should have an existing SS-5.
How long does it take to get the form? I have requested 3 and they all say either full grant or partial grant/partial denial, but I have not received anything.
Should I be receiving something via postal mail or do I need to download it from somewhere? Thanks!!
There is no expected time right now with the Covid closures. They will come by mail, but when… all I can say is, patience is the only game.
My impression is that the amendments to Social Security, notably the addition of Medicare, made in 1965 as part of the Great Society legislation, incentivized quite a few elderly people to obtain SS cards. Some had been in occupations that either did not require payment into SS, or working as domestics or in similar jobs where employers did not report wages or pay SS taxes on them. So I’ve seen quite a few SS registrations via SS-5 right after 1965 by elderly folks qualifying for benefits.
Jill, I think your parameters are too narrow. My great-grandmother’s second husband (1883–1948) applied for an SS number as did his brother. My grandfather and his brother and two sisters (b. 1889 and later) each applied; one of the sisters died in 1943.
This is what basically started my genealogy passion. My grandfather died in 1974 & some hint came up with a link to get his SS appl. I think I paid $3 for it. When it came, it didn’t seem to have very much info, but it did include the names of his parents – which we never knew! And off I went. Thanks for the information.
Have you ever written (or lectured) about getting comparable application information for railroad workers, who apparently did not participate in Social Security but in a separate system for railroad workers (at least now called the Railroad Retirement Board)? I searched your website and couldn’t find any evidence that you have. I also found that one cannot use the method for SSA applications as you describe in today’s post as the RRB seems not to be a participating agency in the FOIA search system. I also couldn’t find anywhere on the RRB website (including the site map/page) how to get an individual railroad worker’s application. I then Googled to learn something about the history of the retirement system for railroad workers and found this:
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n2/v68n2p41.html
So far, I’ve only scanned it, seeing nothing there that might be directly helpful in finding information about a particular worker, though I know I should go back and actually wade my way through it carefully. The railroad system seems to have become intertwined with the SSA.
My maternal grandfather (Lawrence B. Radkey, b. 1879 in Indiana but not sure where, which I’d like to find out) worked for a railroad (probably only the Pennsylvania RR, probably first in Indiana and after about 1900 in Chicago) from his teenage years into the 1950s (beyond the probably then-usual retirement age of 65). He died at 80 in 1959. I know he had what was called “railway retirement” by the family but have no idea what his number might have been. I presume he would have applied for the retirement system back when it was first available, in the 1930s, evidently. His widow (my grandmother, Inabelle or Ina Belle) probably got some kind of (probably small) survivor’s benefit(s) between his death and hers in 1975.
Because so many Americans worked for a railroad during the 20th century, especially, I suspect many of your readers who are descendants (or relatives) would like to know how to get pertinent information about them. Any help/advice you can offer will be very much appreciated.
Marge – This was the case with my maternal grandfather. He worked for the Illinois Central Railroad Company in New Orleans. His social sec number began with “709” so it was different from the SSN’s of everyone else. I was able to get his file from the National Archives in Atlanta. It looks like a lot of the web pages that led me there are no longer posted, but I found the below link. This might get you on the right path…
My grandfather’s file was pretty thick. Much of it was about pay stubs and benefits for my grandma after he died, but its value depends on what you already know or don’t.
https://www.archives.gov/atlanta/public/railroad-retirement-board-records
Okay, I will try again. The first time they said they could not find my grandmothers application. There is a conflict of the full date of her birthday and this might help. She was born in either 1891 or 1892. She married 3 times after 1937 (plus 3 times before then). Her California death certificate has the SS of a man. (Need to change that someday but it costs money to do so). She is in the death index with her correct SS. So if I can send in more info about her maybe they will be able to find her application.
Thank you for this comprehensive info!
Yes … do include proof of death. This was my first time requesting one in a few years (in the past, if you asked for a copy of the SS-5 you just got it as long as the person was deceased — don’t remember if I had to even prove that). So, even though this person was listed in the SSDI (which I did not attach), it came back to me with the names of the parents (which of course was what I was seeking) blacked out. I won’t make that mistake again! Do what Judy says to have success and access these great records!
This has changed over time, too… I now have two copies of one SS-5, one with the parents blacked o0ut and one without (I forgot I had that one…)
The first time I ordered a SS application copy was thru Ancestry. This was for a suspected cousin of my grandfather. They still had the maiden name of the mother on the index, the same as my g-grandmother. Because of this I was able to open up another line of my paternal g-grandmother’s sister. That has been a tough line. Fredricksen married to an Eriksen, born in Denmark and moved to Minnesota. About 3 years later that feature was removed. I would have never been able to find this line if not for that short term of “open record”. I still don’t know what job the cousin had but she was still living in 1962 and the newspaper editor mentioned that she was a cousin came from Minnesota (for my grandfather’s funeral). The SS application gave me several little clues that I was able to carry through. Thank you so much for the update.
These records can be amazingly helpful, for sure.
To Marge in Maryland — once NARA has reopened, get in touch with their Atlanta archives. The RRB case files are held there. The archivists have an index that they can look at to see if your ancestor has a file. If he does, it will have the RRB version of the SS-5 in it, plus (usually) a lot more. You might be able to learn from it, for example, the names of all of the railroads he worked for, what job(s) he held with them and when, and what they paid him.
https://www.archives.gov/atlanta/public/railroad-retirement-board-records
Do you know how picky they are on the exact names? If an applicant’s father was John Samuel [Surname omitted], and went by Samuel but appeared as John in other records, his son might have written either or both names on his application. Am I better off to omit the father’s name entirely rather than risking it not matching?
I would list all the alternatives — or just the surname — in the description field so the clerk who goes to pull this has the info.
Catherine, if you have the SSN from the SSDI, and the birthdate of record from the SSDI, I don’t think you gain anything by submitting a parent’s name. I have never submitted a parent’s name, only the applicant name (as on the SSDI), birthdate from SSDI, and SS number from the SSDI. I would not want a clerk to decide that it’s not what you want because the parental names aren’t what you thought they would be.
This was the second genealogy document I had ever ordered…
It answered as many questions as it raised and worth every dollar I spent on it
Hi Judy,
To the person looking for RRB records…I wrote to the RRB in 2012
and received the person’s years of service (1937-1940) and record of earnings for those years as well as his social security application which they had in their file. Plus they took the time to write me a nice
letter detailing their efforts and explaining why more information was not available.
Thanks for this, Judy. I have been having trouble with the new system, and I only found out recently that apparently it doesn’t like Chrome. I will give it another go and use the information you provide above.
In any case, I wanted to note that i requested this past January (2020) an SS-5 for someone who died in October 2017… and received it over the summer. So I don’t know if that’s a fluke, or if there has been some update (internal or external) to the three-calendar-year rule.
Interesting on the three-year-rule fluke here. This was their rule, not the statute, so let’s not say anything in case they’re quietly moving in the right direction… 🙂
Just fyi, the NARA website https://aad.archives.gov/aad/ has a link for NUMIDENT files (SS-5, Death files and claim files) for 1936-2007 under What’s New? You can search by name or SSN. I’ve had great success in determining birth dates and parent’s names searching the SSN from Ancestry Social Security hints.
That is a resource, yes, but IT IS NOT COMPLETE. Anybody who uses this index should read the warning there — there are enormous limits to this resource.
I totally agree 100% that the SS-5 is the best source and I do have them for my direct line ancestors. However, for researching collaterals and DNA matches I use the NUMIDENT to verify info from Ancestry hints/member trees.
Thanks for the update! It’s nice when the quality of an online ordering system goes up and the price goes down.
I requested my father’s SS-5 in 2018 (he died in 2004). Despite the fact that the SSDI record available on Ancestry showed his parents’ names, the copy of the original I received had his parents’ names blacked out — because their births were fewer than 120 years prior to my request. I had to submit a FOIA request to get the copy without the black-out.
I got two copies of one SS-5 — one before the privacy rule and — because I forgot I’d gotten the first one — one after the privacy rule. The second one had the blacked out names; the first one didn’t. Frustrating for sure. But your experience points out why you never take no for an answer without going the FOIA appeal route.
About how long does it take to get the original if you order it online?
In this crazy year of a pandemic and limited staff, it can take months. Plural.
You point out in your 2015 article, “Getting that SSN,” that before 1972 the SSA performed no verification of information on the SS-5. It was simply what the applicant wrote down. However, the SSA seems to be very interested in proof of Date-Of-Birth (DOB) when it comes time to pay benefits, as the following SSA article indicates.
“SSR 67-38a: SECTIONS 202(a), 205(a) and 205(b). PROOF OF AGE — FEDERAL CENSUS RECORDS AS EVIDENCE 20 CFR 404.703 SSR 67-38a”
https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/rulings/oasi/33/SSR67-38-oasi-33.html
I would like to obtain a copy of an individual’s DOB evidence that was accepted by the SSA prior to approving payment of that person’s retirement benefits. Would you please provide your recommendation for how to obtain that evidence? – Likelihood of a useful result, your thoughts?
Background
The case I’m interested in concerns an immigrant who was born in the 1890s and immigrated to (arrived in) the United States in 1913. Throughout his lifetime, his documented age varied, roughly within a 5-years range. His (and his wife’s) naturalization papers made a botch of their personal information, although they both were granted citizenship. The SS-5, even with a correct DOB, provides no proof of that fact. That makes the underlying evidence desirable. The Social Security Claims Index on Ancestry shows that this person began receiving SSA retirement benefits in 1958 and lists a full DOB (month and day) in 1893.
ps. Merry Christmas.
The only option that would be available for this would be a Freedom of Information Act request. FOIA responses are often moire limited (to the person or the person’s next of kin) and the act itself has exceptions especially for privacy. But it’s realistically the only possibility.
Thank you for this easy breakdown. Here’s my experience with this process so far (I made 6 requests on 26 Dec 2020).
Your ‘Step 5’ above says to leave the processing fee alone.
Before reading your post, I had already submitted 4 requests and had altered that field to the $21 fee, as leaving the default $100 was quite shocking to me and not what I was willing to pay.
Then, I came across your post, so for the final 2 requests, I left the default of $100.
All 6 requests I submitted on 26 Dec 2020. That same day, they billed me $21 (4) times. The following day, they billed me $21 (2) times.
Around 16 Jan 2021, I received the 2 SS5 applications in the mail for the requests in which I left the default processing fee of $100 on the form.
As of 24 Jan 2021, I have still not received the SS5s for the other 4 requests. While a part of me worries it’s because I didn’t leave the $100 default as is, there may be another explanation. All 4 of these are for my grandparents who died in the 80s and 00s, so more recently. I DID submit proof of death for all, but I’m thinking they are spending more time ensuring this? I can’t be sure. What is also strange, is even though they emailed me the links to these requests, they did NOT link them up to my FOIA account as they did for the other 2 requests (those requests were for ancestors who passed in the 60s). The requests are still sitting at the initial “Submitted” stage of processing which is disheartening, the name says “Under Agency Review” and the disposition says “Undetermined” with no “Estimated Date of Completion”. There is also no place to submit an inquiry as to what the hold-up is, so for now I will continue to wait patiently and see if there’s some movement over the next month.
So my suggestion for everyone is to follow your ‘Step 5’ instructions and leave the default $100 as is, knowing they will only bill you $21. PERHAPS that is what has stalled these requests….perhaps. I will try and post an update here when I get it resolved. At least I don’t expect startling info on those — I’m more just upset in losing the $80. The 2 older ones which I DID receive were the ones I cared about the most anyhow, and they didn’t disappoint!
One was the ONLY place my great grandmother has recorded her middle name herself (she apparently hated it) — it was EULALA. And on the other, I wanted to see who my 2nd great grandmother believed to be her father. It was who I suspected, which leads me to believe she was lied to as a child (since she was born 2 years after his death…)
Update: After some minor back and forth with the FOIA agency and Social Security agency (both of whom were VERY responsive by email), turns out they had made a small clerical error in not linking these 4 requests to my account, so they were lost in the system. Had nothing to do with the processing fee…supposedly.
They were able to re-attach them to my account and immediately began processing them. I expect to receive the SS-5s in the next couple days in the mail!
How were you able to get hold of them. I’m having issues with not receiving the single request I submitted yet it has been over 3 weeks since they flagged my request as closed with a Partial Grant/Partial Denial. The website itself is of little value since they’ve neglected to update anything other than the status and disposition…maybe I’m expecting too much!
I have received many copies of my working ancestors application for social security. I am wondering if we can also order copies of their work history record as we receive yearly. My great grandfather started working in the movie industry in the 1920’s and I believe through the 1940’s. I would love to find more information that would help me procure records from some of the movie companies by way of his actual working history. Does anyone know if that is possible?
A work history request would be strictly under the Freedom of Information Act, might well carry much different fees, and is subject to all the FOIA exceptions.
I was wondering, in your experience, do I need proof that the individual, whose record I’am asking for was born more than 120 years ago.
I see the record in the claims index; however, not the death index. I know that the individual was 34, in 1924, when he got married. Would SSA release the SS-8 based, on the DOB, in their own records? Or, would I be gambling 21 dollars?
If you have any concern, attach a copy of the marriage record (and say why you’re doing it) — the online ordering system makes it easy.
I have an ancestor I’m trying to track who moved around and had several name changes. I got my SS-5 copy yesterday, which is the Feb 1951 date listed below, but I was hoping to get more details about the name changes/work history/any claims and her whereabouts between 1967-1992. Do you have info about how I do that?
From SSDI:
Feb 1951: Name listed as DELLA MAE LIMMECK; May 1952: Name listed as FRITZ LUBCKE; Jan 1954: Name listed as VIRGINIA ANNE LUBCKE; Oct 1968: Name listed as VIRGINIA ANNE LIMMEX; Aug 1969: Name listed as VIRGINIA ANN SULLIVAN; Feb 1970: Name listed as VIRGINIA ANN BOETTGER
Your only hope is a Freedom of Information Act request for that history — and I suspect it would be futile. SSA won’t even respond to a court subpoena without making everyone jump through hoops.
Is it possible to get info for someone not in your direct line? A great aunt and a great uncle were each childless (both born late 1800s).
As long as you can prove the person is dead, you can get the SS-5 for anyone. You don’t have to be a relative.
My natural grandmother died when my aunt was a baby and my grandfather remarried. When he filed for naturalization he fudged a lot of birth dates because his second wife had a daughter that was born too close to her. He listed both their children as being his so all would be naturalized. I have no idea if she would have used her real mother on her SSA application or her stepmother or what birthday she might have used.
What do you suggest I put on the application? I do have her SS number.
Fill out the information you’re sure of: her name, her SSN, If she died long enough ago to be on the Social Security Death Index (see https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1202535) use the birth and death dates from there.
Has anyone had the experience of ordering an SS-5 and only getting a tiny bit of information? I only received the numidet print out without any parent’s names or additional details since the SS-5 wasn’t included. I submitted a question regarding this but never got a response. It appears that her application was submitted in NYC in 1947, there are two CLD dates, 1947 and 1976.
I did once receive only the Numident. I was informed that was all that could be found.
Is it possible to use this method to order the SS-5 application, if you don’t know the deceased’s social security number? I cannot find them in the public SS death index. I do have their date of death and date of birth, their middle initial, and will be able to get a photo of their tombstone. In case it matters, the person was born in 1904 and died in 1997.
Yes. You have to provide more info but yes. Be advised of course that not everyone ever had a social security number and the SSA doesn’t refund if they can’t find a record.
I mailed my request for an SS-5 in February 2021. My credit card was charged in April 2021. I have yet to receive any correspondence regarding my request. Is this normal? Is there anyone that I can contact to check on the status of my request?
There’s no such thing as “normal” during the pandemic, but contact info is here: https://www.ssa.gov/foia/contact.html
Thanks. I hope I am rewarded for my suffering with an SS-5 full of information.
Also, do you know if I can obtain an apostille on a certified copy of an SS-5? The U.S. State Dept website says it will issue an apostille for any document with the signature and seal of a federal official, but I just wanted to see if anyone had experience obtaining this.
No clue. Not sure an SS-5 would be accepted as proof anyway since you can’t establish who provided the information.
How long does it take to get the form? I have requested 3 and they all say either full grant or partial grant/partial denial, but I have not received anything.
Should I be receiving something via postal mail or do I need to download it from somewhere? Thanks!!
I’m dealing with the same issue. I requested one SS-5 in August of 2021. I sent an email to the email address for questions about these types of requests and told them the SS-5 did not arrive by the expected date. They said it would come via postal mail. My email ended up being forwarded to the processing team for these requests and they were instructed to resend the response for the SS-5. Mine is listed as full grant too. I’m waiting in suspense.
Update: I received the SS-5 today with the parents names, including the middle name of the mother of the lady I am researching did not use (It was Editha if you are wondering. I think Editha is a pretty name. I noticed her mother used E. when asked for her middle name.) I learned new info, like a place of employment and an address I did not previously have for her. It was worth the wait!
Congratulations!!
Update: I finally received a response in the mail after emailing the FOIA public liaison, who forwarded my email to DEBS and asked them to resend their response. It seems like it is quite common not to get a response despite paying the fee and the request being listed as “closed”.
Unfortunately, I received the OAC-790 instead of the original SS-5. The letter stated that the original SS-5 could not be found. Was this because my ancestor never worked and only obtained an SSN when filing for a widow benefit?
Would it be worth it to try again and see if something more turns up?
Nope, you’re right that it’s likely that all that exists now is this form (I have this situation with my grandmother as well).
I’m researching a woman who had two SSNs (ignorantly, not fraudulently) and a total of 16 cards issued over her lifetime. While looking through the public NUMIDENT file transcripts available at NARA, I saw that 9 of those cards were issued based on full applications (form SS-5), while the other 7 were apparently just requests for replacement cards. Besides the files indicating form SS-5 explicitly, I noticed there are subtle differences in her birth date and how she spelled her parents’ names in each of those 9 applications. No two of them are exactly alike in their details.
Assuming the SSA has kept copies of all those applications, do you know if it’s possible to request copies of the subsequent ones? Or can I only request the first original application for each SSN? I’d really like to learn where she was living at the time she got her 11th card.
It isn’t clear whether that data is available. But the online request form has flexibility to add a description of precisely what is being requested and even to say that it’s a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request rather than a straight request for the SS-5 or Numident. It’s worth a shot.
Thanks for this. I ordered an SS-5 and turnaround time was only 10 days! I thought I knew all the answers but learned several new things: The subject used an alternative middle name. I learned his father’s full middle name for the first time. Also he used an alternative spelling for his mother’s maiden name. And, I learned a place of employment I never knew about before.
Hello. I just used this article to apply for my grandmother’s SS-5. I got a quick rejection letter. My issue is that I cannot find any vital information for her past 1925. I was hoping this request would give me the info I need to get her death certificate. I applied for a Fannie Bishop Dickerson-Record B: 14 August 1887. I provided Fannie’s birth certificate, her dead husband’s death cert, and their marriage certificate. My grandfather’s DC stated they were still married at the time of his death in 1950. So if Fannie changed her name, SSA couldn’t make a connect with the info I provided? SSA stated they couldn’t find the app. Is it possible Fannie would never have to apply for SSN? Thanks.
Yup. If she never applied for benefits as a widow and never worked outside the home for wages, she’d likely never have gotten a number.
I pointed someone to the instructions here but when they followed these instructions, they found that https://foiaonline.gov/ went out of service September 30, 2023.
It looks like the new service to order the SS-5, 2023-style, is at: https://foia.ssa.gov/
Perhaps worth an update to this (valuable!) post.
On the to-do list.